中国外交部长王毅接受英国《金融时报》专访

Foreign Minister Wang Yi’s Exclusive Interview with the Financial Times

2014年1月24日，正在瑞士达沃斯出席世界经济论坛2014年年会的中国外交部长王毅接受英国《金融时报》副主编、FT中文网总编辑张力奋专访。内容如下：

On 24 January, Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi, who was attending the World Economic Forum Annual Meeting 2014 in Davos, Switzerland, gave an exclusive interview to Zhang Lifen, Associate Editor of the Financial Times and Editor-in-Chief of FTChinese.com. The following is a transcript of the interview.

张力奋：王毅外长，欢迎您来到瑞士达沃斯，出席2014世界经济论坛年会。我知道，这是历史上中国外长第一次到访达沃斯。习近平主席、李克强总理新一代领导人上任已近一年，外界对中国外交的新思路非常关注。您这次到访达沃斯，给大家带来最重要的信息是什么？

Zhang Lifen: Foreign Minister Wang Yi, welcome to Davos for the World Economic Forum annual meeting. I know you are the first Chinese foreign minister to come to Davos. It has been a year since President Xi Jinping and Premier Li Keqiang took office, and there has been a great deal of interest in China’s new diplomatic thinking and ideas. My first question for you is: what is the most important message you have brought with you to Davos?

王毅：就是3句话：讲述中国故事，传播中国信心，造福世界人民。中国取得的成就是当今世界最成功的故事。首先我们中国人自己要把这个成功的故事讲好，同时也希望负责任的媒体更加客观地报道中国。

Wang Yi: I am here in Davos mainly to tell the China story. By so doing, I hope to spread China’s confidence in its own future, which will bring benefit to people across the world. The China story is the greatest success story of our times. First, it falls upon us the Chinese to tell our success story well. And then, we hope that media organizations will write about China with a great sense of responsibility and in a more objective light.

要讲好中国的成功，我觉得最重要的是，针对国际上一些人对中国未来的各种各样猜测做好解释工作。不时有一些唱衰中国经济、唱衰中国发展的说法。比如说，中国在调整经济结构进程中取得7.7%的增长已经很好，但仍有一些声音对此提出质疑。所以不仅要讲中国的成功故事，还要把中国成功故事背后的原因和动力讲清楚，向世界传递中国对自己未来的自信。

In telling the world about China’s success story, the most important thing in my view is to make good explanations in response to the myriad of speculations about China’s future. We have heard from time to time people talking down the Chinese economy and China’s development. For example, China has achieved a 7.7% GDP growth rate in the course of economic structural adjustment. This is no mean feat. But still, some people have raised doubts about it. So we need to tell the world about China’s success story and, more importantly, explain clearly the reasons and driving force behind its success story and pass on to the world China’s confidence in its own future.

中国至少有3个其他国家不具有的独特优势：一是中国巨大的市场。中国市场按人口规模来算，是美国的近4倍。迄今为止，美国为全世界提供市场。我想，未来的中国肯定将向世界提供更大的市场。

China has at least three unique advantages that other countries don’t share. First, a huge market. In population terms, the Chinese market is nearly four times that of the United States. By now, the US market has been dubbed market of the world. I believe that as time goes by, China will offer an even bigger market to the world.

中国的发展并不平衡，特别是东西部发展不平衡，城乡之间发展也不平衡，这是我们要解决的问题，但恰恰是这个问题本身，给我们带来希望和需求。中国发展的巨大需求将波浪式释放出来，从东到西。这是推动中国经济持久发展的重要动力。

China’s development is uneven, especially between its eastern and western regions and between urban and rural areas. This is a challenge we have to address. But this very challenge has also brought us hope and demand. The massive demand that comes with China’s development will be unleashed wave upon wave, from eastern China to its western hinterland. This is a main driving force behind the sustained growth of the Chinese economy.

第二个独特优势是执政党优势。中国共产党拥有8600万党员，汇集了中国大批的精英。我们的用人和选人制度非常有效。首先有选举制度，不是那种街头式的一次性选举，而是在不同范围内多次投票。此外我们还有民主协商制度，反复地征求各方意见。这两方面机制的结合，使得中国培养的干部拥有丰富的经验、完整的履历，具备治国理政的能力。8000多万党员心往一处想，劲往一处使，还有什么困难不能克服？

The second unique advantage China enjoys is its ruling party. The Communist Party of China (CPC) has 86 million members, including many outstanding people. China’s system of selecting and appointing officials is very effective. First, our election system is not about street campaigns and one-off voting but multiple voting by different groups of people. Besides, our democratic consultation system requires comprehensive consultation with people from various sectors. A fusion of these two systems has ensured that Chinese officials are rich in experience and capable in governance. With the synergy of over 80 million party members, I don’t see any difficulty that cannot be surmounted.

第三个独特优势是，经过多年摸索，我们终于找到了一条符合中国国情且行之有效的发展道路。有人把它称为“中国模式”。中国道路很重要的一点，是处理好改革、发展和稳定的关系。作为一个发展中国家，发展是我们的第一要务。为了保障发展，必须有稳定的社会环境，同时通过改革为发展提供必要动力。

Our third unique advantage is the effective development path that suits China’s national conditions. We have found this path after years of exploration. Some call it the “Chinese model”. A very important aspect concerning the Chinese path is proper management of the relationship among reform, development and stability. For China, a developing country, development is the primary task. Development is to be ensured by a stable social environment and boosted by reform.

今天，我们正在打造一个改革、发展、稳定三者关系的升级版。比如发展，要彻底改变过去的发展方式，真正走一条绿色、循环、可持续的道路。这样就可以跨越中等收入陷阱。改革也是如此。

We are now working to upgrade the relationship among the three. Regarding development, we will completely change the past pattern of development and truly take a green, circular and sustainable approach. This will help us overcome the middle-income trap.

中国共产党十八届三中全会推出了一个300多项内容的改革方案。新一轮改革将是全方位、综合性的改革，不仅是经济，还包括政治、社会、文化等方方面面。稳定方面，就是要加强依法治国。三者关系的升级版将确保中国经济长久发展。这不仅惠及中国，也将惠及世界。

With respect to reform, the Third Plenum of the 18th CPC Central Committee introduced a package plan with over 300 specific measures. The new round of reform will be all-dimensional and wide-ranging, covering not only the economic field but also political, social, cultural and other fields. In terms of stability, we will strengthen the rule of law. An upgraded version of the relationship will guarantee sustained economic growth in China, which will benefit not only ourselves but also the rest of the world.

有几个趋势正在显现：中国在继续保持世界工厂地位的同时，将迅速成长为世界市场；在继续保持引进外资大国地位的同时，将迅速成长为一个对外投资的大国。去年中国引进外资1000多亿美元，对外投资快速升至900亿美元。中国对外经贸往来中出现更多的资本密集型、甚至技术密集型产品。用李克强总理的话来讲，就是实现从“中国制造”向“中国装备”的战略性转变。总之，中国的发展将造福整个世界。

There are several trends about China’s development that I want to explain here. China is fast becoming a world market while remaining a world factory, and will rapidly turn into a major overseas investor while remaining a major destination of overseas investment. Last year, China attracted over US$100 billion of investment from abroad, and overseas Chinese investment jumped to US$90 billion. More capital- and even technology-intensive products have been seen in China’s trade with the rest of the world. As Premier Li Keqiang puts it, we are achieving a strategic shift from “made in China” to “equipment from China”. Generally speaking, China’s development will be a blessing to the entire world.

张力奋：这次达沃斯年会，有全球40多国的领导人和2500位各领域精英。他们对中国下一步的发展，有很多问题要问。达沃斯年会传统上更多讨论经济贸易问题，但是，今年有很大变化，不少议程涉猎地缘政治、国际关系和区域等问题。

Zhang Lifen: Leaders from 40 countries and 2,500 elite representatives from various sectors have gathered at this year’s Davos meeting. They have many questions about where China will go from here. Traditionally, discussions at Davos have been dominated by economic and trade issues. But this year, it is very different. We hear more about China’s geopolitics, international relations and some regional issues.

在您抵达之前，日本首相安倍也到了达沃斯，并有一个高规格的主题演讲。他的演讲，主要分为两部分：主要部分，谈了安倍经济学以及他振兴日本经济的计划；另一部分则是他对亚太特别是对当下中国地缘政治的看法。讲话中，他对参拜靖国神社做了辩解。作为中国外长，您对此有何反应？

Before you came, Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe was here and he gave a high-profile special address, which contained two parts. The bulk of his address was devoted to Abenomics and his plan to revive the Japanese economy. The rest included his views about geopolitics in the Asia-Pacific, especially with regard to China. He also defended his visit to the Yasukuni Shrine. As the Chinese foreign minister, what’s your reaction to that?

王毅：昨天在瑞士蒙特勒有记者问我同样的问题。我用了一句中国话，叫“越抹越黑”。

Wang Yi: In my answer to the same question by another journalist in Montreux yesterday, I used a Chinese saying, “the more one wants to wipe something out, the darker this something becomes.”

回答这个问题，首先要了解靖国神社问题的实质。靖国神社在二战前是百分之百的军国主义象征，战后保留了下来。靖国神社直到今天还在公开宣扬当年的对外侵略是正当的，公开声称太平洋战争是自卫，公开宣称远东国际军事法庭的审判是非法的，而且仍把14名甲级战犯当作神灵供奉在神社里。这样一个地方，日本领导人去合适吗？答案是非常清楚的。不仅中国、韩国和亚洲受害国家人民表示反对，就连日本国内都存在相当强烈的质疑声音。这次安倍去了之后，日本六大报纸中的五家都表示不赞成。

To get a clear answer to this question, we should first recognize the nature of the Yasukuni Shrine issue. The Shrine was without doubt a militarist symbol before World War II, and has been retained after the war. Even today, the Shrine openly claims that Japan’s past aggression was justified, that the Pacific War was waged for self defense, and that the trial by the International Military Tribunal for the Far East was illegal. The Shrine still honors 14 Class-A war criminals as divine spirits. Is that an appropriate place for a Japanese leader to visit? The answer is very clear. Not only the people from China, the ROK and other victimized Asian countries have expressed opposition to Abe’s visit. Even people within Japan are strongly questioning the visit. Five out of the six major newspapers in Japan have expressed disapproval of Abe’s visit.

这种做法的危害，在于突破了三个底线：一是中日关系底线。中日关系1972年实现正常化，一个重要前提是日本要正确对待历史，承认过去的侵略，吸取历史教训。日本首相向当年的甲级战犯表示敬意就突破了这一底线，是一种为战犯张目、为侵略翻案的行为。不管怎么解释，释放的信号都是清楚的。

The visit is damaging, as it has crossed three bottom lines. First, the bottom line of China-Japan relations. A key prerequisite for the normalization of China-Japan relations in 1972 was that Japan should treat history correctly, recognize its past aggression, and draw lessons from history. But this bottom line was breached when the Japanese prime minister paid homage to Class-A war criminals honored in the Shrine. A visit there is an act to clear the name for war criminals and overturn the history of aggression. The message it sends is clear no matter how it is explained.

二是突破了人类良知和国际正义的底线。你能想象欧洲的领导人去向当年的纳粹献花，表示敬意吗？这是不可想象的。安倍解释说，他是去双手合十表示敬意，同时宣誓不再发动战争。这完全不符合逻辑！在欧洲，如果出现同样情况，不仅不可思议，而且可能触犯法律。

Second, the bottom line of human conscience and international justice. Is it imaginable that a European leader should lay wreath and pay homage to the Nazis? Definitely not. Abe said he was there to express his sincere reverence and at the same time, promise not to wage war again. This makes no sense at all. It would be unthinkable or even unlawful if such things happened in Europe.

三是突破了战后国际秩序的底线。以联合国为代表的现代国际秩序是在世界反法西斯战争胜利基础上建立起来的。质疑、挑战世界反法西斯战争胜利成果，当然不可接受。我们还必须思考，为什么明知会遭到国内和国际社会强烈反对，仍然要坚持这么做？所有爱好和平的国家和人民都应对此保持警惕。

Third, the bottom line of the subsequent post-war international order. The contemporary international order represented by the United Nations was established on the basis of the victory of the world’s anti-fascist war. Any attempt to question or challenge the outcomes of the war is absolutely unacceptable. Moreover, we should also ask ourselves why Abe insisted on doing so, knowing full well the strong opposition at home and abroad. All peace-loving countries and peoples should be vigilant about it.

张力奋：这两天达沃斯论坛上，在涉及中国和亚太的议题中，许多人认为中日关系存在很大不确定因素。中方对日本首相参拜问题的立场非常明确，中方已表示不会与安倍这样的日本领导人再打交道。那么，如果外交努力已经穷尽，下一步会发生什么？最糟糕的情形是什么？双方会不会产生军事冲突？安倍在演讲中称日本绝不会再发动战争。但是，大家担忧，会不会出现不愿看到的结果，如军事冲突。王毅部长，您曾在东京5年，出任中国驻日大使。您认为下一步可能会发生什么？

Zhang Lifen: During the last two days’ Davos discussions on China and the Asia Pacific, many people talked about the great uncertainties in China-Japan relations. China’s position on the Japanese prime minister’s visit to the Shrine was very clear and it said it would not do business with leaders like Abe. Once diplomatic efforts have been exhausted, what will happen next? What is the worst-case scenario? Will there be a military conflict? Abe said in his remarks that Japan will never wage war again. Many people worry about a prospect that nobody wants to see – a military conflict, for example. Minister Wang Yi, you had been once the Chinese ambassador in Japan for five years, what do you think may happen next?

王毅：外交的职责，就是争取最好的前景和结果。否则要外交官做什么？现在重要的是，唤起国际社会警惕日本目前出现的动向，发出正义的声音。

Wang Yi: The purpose of diplomacy is to strive for the best prospects and results. That’s precisely what diplomats are for. What is important right now is to alert the international community to keep vigilance against the developments in Japan and send out a message of justice.

我看到，越来越多的日本民众和团体对安倍的做法表示反对。我相信这一趋势还会进一步发展。正因如此，日本当政者的做法是不可持续的，必须改弦更张。过去也发生过这种事情。1985年日本首相第一次参拜就遭到反对，最终他不得不放弃。此后小泉内阁时期也发生过。我想这次也一样，只是时间问题。

I have noted that more and more Japanese people and groups have expressed their opposition and I believe this trend will gather momentum. In view of this, the approach of the Japanese leaders is unsustainable and they must change course. Such things have happened in the past. When a former Japanese prime minister visited Yasukuni for the first time in 1985, he encountered opposition and had to give up the practice in the following years. The same thing happened to the Koizumi government. It will happen this time as well. It is only a matter of time.

至于中日关系，我们当然愿意与邻国和平相处，但和平相处是有原则、有底线的。中国站在正义一方。我相信当越来越多的国家和人民对安倍的做法表示质疑和反对时，形势就会发生变化。

With regard to China-Japan relations, we certainly want to live in peace with our neighbors. But we also have our principles and bottom lines. China is on the side of justice. I am sure when more and more countries and peoples question and oppose what Abe has done, the situation will change.

张力奋：在目前状况下，中日之间有什么沟通机制，来防范可能出现的意外或不愿看到的情况？

Zhang Lifen: Under the current circumstances, is there any mechanism of communication between China and Japan to avert situations that is surprising or no one wants to see?

王毅：当然有渠道。我们的大使还在东京，每天向日本人民解释和说明中国人民的立场，做日方的工作，敦促日方认识到这种做法的错误。这方面工作只要持之以恒做下去，会有效果的。

Wang Yi: Of course there are channels. The Chinese ambassador is still in Tokyo. Every day, he is explaining to the Japanese people the position of the Chinese people, engaging with the Japanese side and urging Japan to recognize that the visit is wrong. So long as the Chinese side continues along this path, it will have an impact.

张力奋：1972年中日邦交正常化以后，中日关系有过起伏。对于当前的中日关系，有人用冰点等各种各样的形容词。如果请您用一个词来概况当前的中日关系，您会用什么词？

Zhang Lifen: There have been ups and downs since the normalization of China-Japan relations in 1972. Some have described the current relationship as “at a freezing point”. How would you characterize the relationship right now?

王毅：当前的中日关系，当然很不好，正处于低谷。但任何事情都物极必反，走到头了，就会回头。我认为，只要是正确的，我们就应该坚持，最终正确的总会成为大家的共识。

Wang Yi: Certainly the relationship is very bad right now; it is at a low point. But things tend to bounce back when they reach the bottom. I believe we should stick to what we think is the right thing to do. Ultimately, what is right will become the consensus.

张力奋：您觉得如果2014年有什么事情发生，中方会排除军事冲突的可能性吗？

Zhang Lifen: In your view, if something happens in 2014, will China rule out the possibility of a military conflict?

王毅：我建议不要从这个角度思考，这样想，你就会越来越悲观。我刚才讲了，作为外交官，我们还是应尽力争取好的前景。

Wang Yi: If you choose to think that way, you may end up with a more pessimistic outlook. Just like what I said, as diplomats, we must go all the way to secure the best possible prospect.

张力奋：还有一个问题也与日本有关。安倍首相在达沃斯主旨演讲前，与一批国际媒体记者有个见面吹风会。他认为，当前中日关系与1914年前德国和英国的关系很相像，意思是虽然这两个国家当时在贸易和经济合作方面有很多往来，但良好的经济关系和共同利益并没有使两国最终避免在“一次大战”中交战。您对此有什么看法？

Zhang Lifen: Another question related to Japan. Before his special address in the afternoon the day before yesterday, Mr. Abe held a briefing with some international media outlets. He compared the current relationship with China to one between Britain and Germany in 1914, suggesting that although Britain and Germany had quite frequent economic and trade interactions at the time, the good economic ties and common interests did not stop the two from coming into war with each other during the World War I. What is your view?

王毅：我也看到了这一报道，中国外交部发言人已做出了回应。既然你提到了，我也想说两句。我的第一印象是时空错乱，甚至可以说莫名其妙。

Wang Yi: I saw the report too. The spokesperson of the Chinese foreign ministry has made a response. Since you have brought this up, I wish to add a few words. Abe’s remarks struck me as total disorder of time and space, making no sense at all.

时空错乱的意思是，现在的国际形势与1914年时不可同日而语。中国是一个和平力量，中国的发展将增强世界维护和平的力量。莫名其妙的意思是，如果日方愿意回顾历史，我们可以奉陪。看看近代史上日本都做了些什么？1910年强行吞并、殖民统治朝鲜半岛，这是日本近代史上很不光彩的一页。1931年制造“柳条沟事件”，侵占中国东北，杀害大量中国同胞。1937年挑起“卢沟桥事变”，发起全面侵华战争。

What I mean by total confusion of time and space is that the world has changed dramatically since 1914. China is a force for peace. Its development gives the world greater strength to uphold peace. Abe’s remarks also made no sense. If Japan wants to talk about history, then let’s talk about history. Let’s all have a good look at what Japan actually did in modern history. In 1910, Japan annexed and exercised colonial rule over the Korean Peninsula, which represented an ignominious page in Japan’s modern history. In 1931, Japan created the Liutiaogou Incident, occupied Northeast China, and committed mass killings there. In 1937, Japan created the Lugouqiao Incident and launched a full-scale war of aggression against China.

我不想讲得很细，只告诉你一个数字，日本侵华战争期间，中国军民死伤三千五百万人。1941年日本又发动太平洋战争，军国主义铁蹄几乎踏遍东南亚地区。历史事实非常清楚，是谁在不断发动侵略？是谁在不断制造麻烦？一目了然。

I will not go into details, but let me give you one figure: during the war, the Chinese military and civilian casualties amounted to 35 million. Then in 1941, Japan launched the Pacific War, sending its militarist troops across almost the entire Southeast Asia. These solid historical facts show clearly who kept waging aggressions and who kept making trouble.

如果要谈历史，请日本领导人好好反省历史，吸取教训。只有真正反省历史，才能开辟未来，才能获得邻国的信任。

Since history is the subject here, we advise the Japanese leader to fully reflect on history and learn its lessons. Only by doing so can Japan create a better future and win the trust of its neighboring countries.

张力奋：当前的中日关系令人担心。依您判断，会在多大程度上影响双边经济和贸易往来？很多中国老百姓在网上说，中国对日本最有效的制裁，就是经济制裁。您怎么看？双边关系恶化，会不会直接影响双边经济和贸易？

Zhang Lifen: The current China-Japan relations are worrisome. In your view, how will it impact bilateral economic and trade ties? Many Chinese have commented online that the most effective sanctions China can impose on Japan are economic sanctions. What is your view? Will the strained bilateral relations have a direct impact on bilateral business ties?

王毅：经济往来有其自身规律。当然，最好有一个相对和谐友善的气氛。去年中日贸易数字有些回落，原因是多方面的，其中也包括两国政治关系不好带来的消极影响。我们不希望出现这样的局面，但这也不以人的意志为转移。应该说，目前中日经济往来总体上还正常，主要是经济规律自身在起作用。日本经济界的朋友们很担心，不希望两国的经济交往继续掉下去。如果这样的话，就应该出来讲话，发出声音，制止那种影响中日关系、破坏中日信任、甚至开历史倒车的行为，这才是从根本上维护两国合作的正确之道。

Wang Yi: Economic ties follow their own law of development. But a harmonious and amicable atmosphere will certainly be a big plus. Bilateral trade between China and Japan went down last year due to several factors, including the negative impact of the strained political ties. This is not what we hope to see, but this is not something that can be changed by our will. Actually, our economic ties with Japan remain normal on the whole, mainly because the law of economic development is still at play. If friends in the Japanese business circle are truly worried and do not want the decline to continue, they should step forward and speak their mind, in an effort to stop behaviors that undermine the relations and trust between China and Japan or even turn back the wheel of history. This is what is really needed to fundamentally preserve the cooperation between our two countries.

张力奋：国际社会也很关心朝鲜半岛问题。您任外交部副部长期间，是六方会谈的中方团长。大家都很关心，中国目前如何界定它与朝鲜的关系？是一种特殊的关系呢，还是逐渐正常的国与国关系？

Zhang Lifen: The international community pays close attention to issues related to the Korean Peninsula. You led the Chinese delegation to the Six-Party Talks when you were the vice foreign minister. People are keen to know how China defines its relations with the DPRK. Is it a special relationship or one that is gradually becoming normal?

王毅：第一，中国愿与所有邻国发展睦邻友好关系。朝鲜是中国的重要邻国之一，我们当然重视与朝鲜发展睦邻友好关系。第二，中朝之间还有传统友谊，我们珍惜并希望把这种传统友谊继承下去。第三，任何国与国之间，都不可能在所有问题上看法一致。一个家庭里的亲兄弟有时还有不同意见，更何况国与国之间？因此两国在一些问题上意见不一致，这很正常，应通过各层次对话增进相互了解，扩大共识。

Wang Yi: First of all, China is ready to develop good-neighborly and friendly relations with all neighbors. The DPRK is one of China’s important neighbors. We certainly attach great importance to growing a good-neighborly and friendly relationship with it. Second, there is also a traditional friendship between China and the DPRK. We cherish it and hope it will last. Third, there are no two countries in the world that see eye to eye on every issue. Even brothers sometimes argue with each other, let alone countries. It is only natural that China and the DPRK may differ on some issues. What is important is to have dialogue at various levels so as to increase mutual understanding and build consensus.

中朝之间，一个有分歧的问题是核问题。在这个问题上，中方的立场是明确、一贯、不变的，那就是反对朝鲜发展核武器，推动半岛无核化。朝鲜发展核武器，实际上并不利于其安全，不符合朝鲜人民的根本和长远利益，对地区形势也会带来复杂影响。怎么解决这个问题？必须通过对话谈判的方式，绝对不能用极端的、军事的方式。我们说过，绝不允许在家门口生事生乱。半岛无核化只能通过对话谈判加以解决。在这方面，六方会谈是唯一可行途径。我们的基本主张是，一方面推动实现半岛无核化，一方面也要解决朝鲜的合理安全关切。这才是公平合理的。

One issue that China and the DPRK have difference on is the Korean nuclear issue. China’s position on the issue is clear, consistent and unchanged. We are opposed to the DPRK’s development of nuclear weapons and committed to the denuclearization of the peninsula. The pursuit of nuclear weapons does not serve the DPRK’s own security purposes and its people’s fundamental and long-term interests. It will also complicate the regional situation. How can this issue be resolved? It has to be resolved through dialogue and negotiation. The extreme approach of military action is no option. We have stated that China will not allow trouble to be created at its doorstep. Denuclearization of the peninsula can only be achieved through dialogue and negotiation. The Six-Party Talks is the only viable path to achieve this goal. Our basic position is that the peninsula must be denuclearized and the DPRK’s legitimate security concerns should also be addressed, as this is only fair and reasonable.

张力奋：您刚才提到中朝之间有传统友谊。换种说法，大家还是会认为中朝两国有特殊关系。大家希望中国利用它与朝鲜的传统特殊关系施加影响，缓和朝鲜半岛局势。不过，有时候，又感觉中国在逐渐失去对朝鲜的特殊影响力。

Zhang Lifen: You have just said the two countries have a traditional friendship, or a special relationship as some people believe. Many want China to use its traditional or special relationship with the DPRK to influence the country and help ease the situation on the Korean Peninsula. Yet sometimes they feel that China might be losing its special influence on the DPRK.

王毅：中国对朝鲜的影响力，外界总是有些误判。说到底，中国与朝鲜是国与国的关系。国与国的关系由国际关系基本准则来规范，必须遵守这些基本准则。同时作为邻国，我们交往更多一些，这也很正常。六方会谈不是中方一家的事，其他五方也应发挥作用，特别是美朝之间。希望他们能尽快恢复对话，通过对话解决他们之间的各种问题，为重启六方会谈创造应有条件。

Wang Yi: There are always some misunderstanding about China’s influence on the DPRK. China-DPRK relations are in the final analysis state-to-state relations, which are regulated by the basic norms of international relations that all must abide by. Yet, as neighbors, the two countries have interacted a lot, which is all very natural. The Six-Party Talks is not a matter for China alone; the other five parties must play their part, particularly, the United States and the DPRK. I hope they will soon reopen their dialogue, resolving whatever outstanding issues between them through such dialogue and thus creating conditions necessary for the resumption of the Six-Party Talks.

张力奋：您是中华人民共和国成立以来的第11任外交部长，中美关系应是最重要的双边关系。大家都在问，过去多年中，中美关系的头上，总有许多形容词，如全面伙伴关系，新型伙伴关系云云，但似乎都不能彻底解决我们的疑问。如果暂且撇开所有外交辞令，中美关系中最重要的信任问题到底解决了吗？您最近发表文章说，中美关系将进入不冲突、不对抗的阶段，这真的能实现吗？

Zhang Lifen: You are the 11th Foreign Minister of the People’s Republic of China since its founding.The relationship between China and the United States perhaps is the most important bilateral relationship in the world. People are wondering that with more and more adjectives we have used to describe China-US relations, such as comprehensive partnership, new type of partnership, etc., have we put to rest our doubt, namely, despite all the diplomatic niceties, have we resolved the issue of trust which is central to China-US relations? In a recently published article of yours, you said that China and the United States will enter a period of non-conflict and non-confrontation. Is that truly feasible?

王毅：信任问题，实际上是对中美关系的预期问题。中美是两个大国，一个是最大的发达国家，一个是最大的发展中国家，一个是第一大经济体，一个是第二大经济体。中美关系的走向不仅影响中美两国，也影响全世界。所以大家不断预测中美关系的未来，并据此作出他们自身政策的调整。这是一个很大的问题，影响超越中美两国。

Wang Yi: The trust issue, in fact, concerns people’s expectations of China-US relations. Both are the world’s major countries, with one being the largest developed country and the other the largest developing country. They are also the world’s two top economies. The state of China-US relations bears on not only China and the United States but the whole world. That is why people are keen to speculate on the future of China-US relations and adjust their policy decisions correspondingly. This is indeed a big question with an impact that goes beyond the bilateral context.

我们应解决好影响中美关系长期发展的负面预期问题。为此，我们提出中美应构建新型大国关系，也就是说，要摆脱过去传统大国与新兴大国必然冲突的“修昔底德陷阱”，明确双方不冲突、不对抗。这是中美新型大国关系的第一个特征。

China-US relations. And to this end, we have proposed that the two sides work to build a new model of major-country relationship, one that can free us from the so-called Thucydides trap with the established power and the emerging power colliding inexorably and one that delivers non-conflict and non-confrontation by both sides. Such is the prime feature of the proposed new model of major-country relationship.

能不能做到这一点？我想完全可以。现在是全球化时代，中美利益密不可分，已成为利益共同体，两国年贸易额达五千多亿美元。几乎所有美国大公司都在中国经营。中国对美国的直接投资也越来越多。每天有10000多人往返于两国之间。目前，中美之间有超过100个沟通渠道或机制。这与过去完全不同。也就是说，中美如果发生冲突，将是双输局面。中美两国把不冲突、不对抗的信息共同发出去，就给了其他国家一个定心丸。至于某些试图利用中美摩擦和矛盾从中渔利的国家，也会放弃这种打算。中美之间仅仅不冲突、不对抗还不够，因为当今世界很多问题需要中美合作加以解决。所以我们要在相互尊重的基础上实现合作共赢。不冲突、不对抗，相互尊重，合作共赢构成中美新型大国关系的3个基本特征。当然，中美新型大国关系刚刚开始，能不能真正实现，需要双方共同努力。其进程也不会一帆风顺，肯定会有曲折。但是大方向已经确定，我们要全力朝着这个方向去推进。

Can we achieve that? I think it is entirely possible. We are living in a world of rapid globalization; China and the United States, with interests closely integrated, have already become a community of shared interests. Two-way trade has topped US$500 billion a year. Almost all big American companies are operating in China. China’s direct investment in the United States has grown by leaps and bounds. Every day, over 10,000 people travel between our two countries and the number of channels or mechanisms of communication between the two countries has increased to over 100. This is totally different from the past. In the event of a major conflict between China and the United States, the situation can only be a lose-lose one. That is why the two countries decide to send out a message of non-conflict and non-confrontation, which is reassuring to all the countries. As to countries trying to cash in on China-US frictions and disputes, they will probably give up the attempt when they hear the message.

Of course, just non-conflict and non-confrontation are not enough for China-US relations. Cooperation between the two countries is required to solve a host of problems facing the world. We must achieve win-win cooperation on the basis of mutual respect. Thus the new model of major-country relationship between China and the United States has three defining features of non-conflict and non-confrontation, mutual respect and win-win cooperation. Needless to say, such a relationship is only at the beginning stage. Its successful completion calls for joint efforts by both sides. And the process can not be plain-sailing, but will encounter some twists and turns. What is important is that the general direction has been set, toward which the countries can focus their efforts.

张力奋：对美国近几年重返亚洲的策略，中国心里总感到不舒服吧。您跟美方坦诚布公对此表达过关切吗？

Zhang Lifen: Some people hold the view that China is not comfortable with the US strategy of pivot to Asia in recent years. Have you taken your concern candidly and directly to the American side?

王毅：谈不上什么不舒服。因为美国本来就是一个亚太国家。现在地球越来越小，越来越平，大家同住在一个地球村。美国在亚洲有传统影响和现实利益，我们予以尊重，就像美国也要尊重中国在亚洲的地位与影响一样。我们希望，美方同中方一道在亚太地区发挥积极、建设性作用。只要中美两国合作，这一地区的前途将是光明的。所以我们提出，中美新型大国关系要从亚洲开始做起，因为这个地区是中美利益最交汇的地区，也是最容易出问题的地区。

Wang Yi: China has nothing to be uncomfortable about this. Because the United States has been an Asia-Pacific country all along. The world is getting smaller and flatter, and we are all living in the same global village. The United States has both traditional influence and practical interests in Asia, which we respect, the same way as the United States is expected to respect China’s status and influence in Asia. We hope that the United States and China can work together and play a positive and constructive role in the Asia-Pacific region. So long as the two countries are cooperative, the region will have a bright future. That is why we propose that the building of the new model of major-country relationship begin in Asia, a region where the two countries have far more overlapping interests and where problems are more likely to occur.

张力奋：最后两个问题。我从中国外交部网站上看到您出访行程密集。刚从非洲回来，前几天又在蒙特勒出席叙利亚问题第二次日内瓦会议。我注意到，最近您在接受一家中东媒体采访时表示，中国在中东地区不仅发挥经济作用，而且在政治、军事上都应该发挥应有的作用。以往中方在中东问题上行使否决权比较多。这是否意味着，中国新一届领导人在对国际局势做了总体评估后，中国外交正逐渐走出以前的“韬光养晦”？

Zhang Lifen: I saw from the Chinese Foreign Ministry website that you have a very busy travel schedule. You are just back from a trip to Africa, and you attended the Second International Conference on Syria in Montreux two days ago. I noticed that in a recent interview with Middle East media, you said that China should play in this region not only an economic role but political and military roles as well. In the past, China often used its veto power on Middle East issues. Does this mean that after an overall evaluation of the international landscape, China’s diplomacy under the new leadership is moving gradually away from the previously held “low-key” approach?

王毅：中国外交是有延续性和稳定性的。同时中国外交必须与时俱进，体现开拓性和进取性。特别是随着中国综合国力不断发展，国际上对中国的期待也不断上升，希望中国发挥更大的作用，承担更多的义务。作为安理会常任理事国和世界第二大经济体，中国应该为维护世界和平稳定、为解决地区冲突问题发挥应有作用。这是一个进程，并不意味着中国外交政策发生重大变化。

Wang Yi: China’s diplomacy is well known for its continuity and stability. Nonetheless, it needs to keep pace with the changing times and be innovative and proactive. In particular, as its comprehensive national strength expands steadily, expectations on China by the international community have also grown in such a way that China should be given a greater role to play and more obligations to undertake. As a permanent member of the UN Security Council and the world’s second biggest economy, China can be expected to play a due role in maintaining world peace and stability and resolving regional conflicts. This, being a continuous process, does not mean that major changes have taken place in China’s foreign policy.

你提到我接受半岛电视台的一次采访。他们问我，中国除了在经济上发挥作用，有没有在政治上发挥作用？我说，很多地区出现的问题，关键在于发展问题没解决好。我们利用自己的优势，与中东国家加强经济合作，推动地区发展，从而为解决政治问题创造条件。这并不意味着中国不发挥政治作用。比如从上世纪50年代开始，我们就一直支持巴勒斯坦的正义事业。随着中国国力增强，我们将继续在力所能及范围内，承担与中国国力相适应的国际责任和义务。

You mentioned the interview I gave to Al Jazeera. I was asked whether China has played a political role apart from its economic role. And I said that many regional problems have emerged essentially because development issues have not been well addressed. We have acted on our advantages to strengthen economic cooperation with Middle East countries to advance regional development, thus creating conditions for solving political issues. This does not mean that China plays no role in the political field. For example, since the 1950s, China has always supported the just cause of Palestine. As its national strength grows, China will continue to do what it can to shoulder international responsibilities and obligations that are commensurate with China’s national strength.

张力奋：最后一个问题。在2014年，您最担心的、可能让您晚上睡不着觉的事情是什么？

Zhang Lifen: Last question. In 2014, what will be your biggest concern that might keep you awake at night?

王毅：2014年，国际大格局仍是和平与发展。新兴市场国家虽有些困难，但总体仍呈上升趋势。国际力量对比还在朝着更加均衡的方向发展。世界经济开始缓慢复苏，热点问题得到不同程度的控制和解决。比如，最近伊核问题谈判取得进展。叙利亚双方对立严重，但还是如期召开了第二次日内瓦会议。巴以和谈也在进行。

Wang Yi: In 2014, peace and development will still be the main features of the overall international landscape. Emerging market countries, on the whole, will continue to enjoy the upward trend in spite of some difficulties. The international balance of power is moving toward greater equilibrium. The global economy has begun to recover slowly, and hotspot issues have been brought under control or settled to different extents. For instance, progress has been made recently in negotiations on the Iranian nuclear issue. In spite of the severe confrontation between the two sides of Syria, the Geneva II conference was convened as scheduled. Peace talks between Palestine and Israel are underway as well.

南海形势虽有些炒作，但中国周边地区形势总体稳定。一方面，中国坚持与直接当事方通过对话谈判解决问题。另一方面，中国与东盟共同努力维护好南海的和平稳定。这方面的工作都在积极进行。我们与印度、巴基斯坦等南亚国家，以及韩国、蒙古等邻国关系都很良好。中俄关系则始终保持在高水平上运行。

Although there has been some playing up of the situation in the South China Sea, the situation concerning China’s neighborhood remains generally stable. On the one hand, China is committed to a negotiated solution through dialogue with the parties directly concerned. On the other, China is working with ASEAN to jointly uphold peace and stability in the South China Sea. Work on both fronts is being actively pursued. China also enjoys good relations with South Asian countries such as India and Pakistan, and with its neighboring countries such as ROK and Mongolia. And China-Russia relationship has always maintained a high level of development.

今年我们要办好两个非常重要的主场会议，一是上半年在上海举行的亚信峰会，一是下半年在北京举行的APEC领导人非正式会议。一个聚焦地区安全合作，一个聚焦地区经济发展。我们要把这两篇文章做好，把这两个平台搭好，发挥作为东道国应有的作用。

This year, China will play host to two very important meetings. One is the Summit of the Conference on Interaction and Confidence Building Measures in Asia (CICA) to be held in Shanghai in the first half of the year, which will focus on regional security cooperation. The other is the APEC Economic Leaders’ Meeting to be held in Beijing in the latter half of the year, which is about regional economic growth. China will play its due role as the host country, turn the two events into useful platforms of cooperation and ensure their success.

我们还要抓好两个落实。一是前不久召开的周边外交工作座谈会。习近平主席提出了“亲、诚、惠、容”的重要理念，我们将努力把这四字箴言落实到我们的睦邻友好关系中去。一是习近平主席去年访问非洲时提出的正确义利观。这既是中国优秀文化传统的体现，也是中国外交的一面旗帜。我们将把它贯彻落实到对发展中国家尤其是最不发达国家的交往当中。 对于我们的老朋友，对于那些经济发展困难的国家，我们要使他们多得利、早得利，实现互利合作，共同发展。

It is also our task to implement important concepts and notions on China’s diplomacy. One is the important concepts of “amity, sincerity, mutual benefit and inclusiveness” put forward by President Xi Jinping at the recent meeting on neighborhood diplomacy. We will work hard to implement these concepts in our pursuit of good-neighborly and friendly relations. The other is the notion of following the right approach to principles and interests proposed by President Xi Jinping during his visit to Africa last year. This notion is not only a reflection of China’s fine cultural tradition, but also a banner of China’s diplomacy. We will follow the right approach in our exchanges with developing countries, the least developed countries in particular. When it comes to our old friends, including those countries confronted with difficulties in economic development, we will help them reap more benefits, and as soon as possible, from cooperation with China, so as to achieve common development through win-win cooperation.

此外，我们还要积极推进习近平主席提出的构建丝绸之路经济带和21世纪海上丝绸之路建设。推进丝绸之路建设，将有利于展开中国全方位的对外开放格局，也将为整个地区的经济发展注入新的活力和动力。我们希与地区各国共同努力，实现共同发展。

In addition, we will make vigorous efforts to move forward the development of the economic belt along the Silk Road and the 21st century maritime Silk Road initiated by President Xi Jinping. These initiatives will contribute to the development of China’s all-dimensional opening-up strategy and inject vigor and vitality into the economic growth of the entire region. We look forward to working in concert with other countries in the region to achieve common development.

张力奋：王毅先生，感谢您在密集行程中抽空接受FT和FT中文网的专访。

Zhang Lifen: Minister Wang Yi, thank you for taking time from your busy schedule to do the interview with Financial Times and FTChinese.com.